Imagination

[DocPtah]

Acoylte said:

Instead I think there is a purpose, something that is part of us, something perhaps innate to our Beingness, that might equate to why we come here to live these lives.

I'm not sure this has anything to do with our Imagination but I have this sense they are related. Maybe Imagining is how we derive our purpose?

Or... maybe our purpose is to imagine!

Assume for the moment that our lives are based on an overall script... but imagination allows us to diverge from the predestination of the world at large... and add unexpected, previously unimagined bits to the overall script... something of an inpromtu performance... but only in bits and pieces.

One might suspect that the whole reason for incarnations is for creating a greater universe based upon the additions derived from imagination.

Acolyte went on to say:

Aside: I sat reading the last couple of posts in this thread & realised that something has gone missing from why I began the thread. I'm not sure what that is, but it started, I thought, with something a little new & towards the end seemed more an academic discussion of things not very relevant. That is probably just my mood for now, & I am not in any way making comment about other posters here, just that I have a sense the thread didn't go how I imagined it might.

What exactly (or approximately) did you have in mind, Acolyte? Shall we go there... as well?

Meanwhile, Dorman, I would be sorry for you to depart. But if so, I can understand that there actually is life outside cyberspace. And sometimes, it's even more attractive and/or appealing. Hail and farewell, if so... and if not, welcome back oh prodigal poster.

[ozziegem]

I imagine It might have something to do with an inbuilt innate survival instinct of all living things to do whatever it takes to continue the species at all costs .Improving it too would be an advantage ....and imagination is a creative
force.


Just my imagine nation .

[Dorman1]

Once again I will express my wonder upon the forlorn attempts of a positivistic effort to understand something as exalted as Life. I am unaffected by attempts at spirituality by men of science, who have advanced so very far in their comprehension of the way Life works. While upon the elevated path of scientific observation and experimentation, they realize much of their effort toward conclusive illustration requires metaphysical axioms.

So there are actions taken as recourse, and I'm doubtful in my estimation of the lengths taken toward finding the most ancient, archaic, Primeval. In most cases, I think the true and original Esoteric Tradition is not approached with sincerity or enough dauntless energy. This laissez faire attempt is due to over-exposure to countless metaphysical axioms being used in purely materialistic science. They are numbed by the sheer number of times they have used unproven assertions to conclude a theory. This condition carries over to the efforts made to reach the true Esoteric Tradition, so often it is simply something stolen from Plato's "Republic" or some other souless attempt to give something finer, qualitative, Real. It is similar to the "Matrix" scene with the source, I think that was the characters name, the scene in which the entire room is filled with television screens, showing previous existences of Neo. Only, our scientists... aren't... the Source.

In my imagination, I'm speaking as a Star. I'm filled with compassion, impersonal and selfless, an attempt always to be unselfish, and pick over everything in attempts to understand whatever novel impressions arise. The Kosmic Feminine, and the Neuter, are only seen through a Veil of Cosmic substances, and are often cruel and dangerous seeming, as well as merciful, and nurturing. At this point, I may begin to confuse or mix attributes and characteristics as I compare ALL Stars to ALL. Maybe it is ALL Stars to ALL Planets, but then I'm left with an even higher place known as ALL Comets, Meteors, nebulai.

[Acolyte]

I'm a long way from a star & although you may see my efforts as forlorn, I am attempting to find a path through the morass of disinformation, misinformation & misplaced data that conceal any apparent path through our daily lives to at least glimpse the sublime.

While you may feel I am not sincere enough or am perhaps lazy in my approach, the path is obscured when people can't find clear answers & so must speculate in the dark. There's a joke where you hold your hands out in front of you, eyes open but waving your hands as if blindfolded. You ask the others, 'What is this?' & when they say, 'I don't know' you reply, 'Wonder Woman, looking for her invisible plane.'

Trying to find a way to travel through the morass presented by the various beliefs, philosophy schools & religious dogmas is difficult, particularly as none of them can even agree on common terms. Jargon is a tool of the inferior attempting to show their superiority over those not 'in the know,' and those who truly know tend not to use it. They are comfortable in their knowledge & have no need to secure insecurities behind a veil of obfuscation.

Knowledge is not truly knowledge if it must be hidden in words with special meanings & it can never become wisdom if the student can't reduce complexity to basic prime truth.

So I guess I will continue on the only path I have; learn as much as I can, about as many subjects as I can, & hope my 'laissez faire attempts' may somehow connect up enough of them that I learn something valuable. Cerainly I do not imagine I will achieve Star status in such a way but we do what we can with the tiny amounts we can glean from the leavings of others.

[Acolyte]

Acoylte said:

Instead I think there is a purpose, something that is part of us, something perhaps innate to our Beingness, that might equate to why we come here to live these lives.

I'm not sure this has anything to do with our Imagination but I have this sense they are related. Maybe Imagining is how we derive our purpose?

Or... maybe our purpose is to imagine!

Assume for the moment that our lives are based on an overall script... but imagination allows us to diverge from the predestination of the world at large... and add unexpected, previously unimagined bits to the overall script... something of an inpromtu performance... but only in bits and pieces.

One might suspect that the whole reason for incarnations is for creating a greater universe based upon the additions derived from imagination.

Of course... I've never been at ease with the idea that we live out every possible life until they are all lived from all possible PoV's - it has never made much sense.

Like my objection to karma, I can't see the current system as being one of plodding along, blind from birth till death, with 'AHA!' moments only in the intervals. The knowledge of past deeds & learning would make far more sense.

So yes, lives guided by the learnings is probably the only scenario I've ever seen as evidence The ALL isn't an insane megalomaniac whale who delights in torturing the plankton which swim in his world. Karma is as silly as original sin. What the hell is the use of punishing or 'adjusting' lives further down a track you can never remember?

But Imagining may be a significant key in developing the paths we take. Each speck of The ALL, each Flame of the Furnace of Life, takes the plot line & imagines a way to reach the ending.

Acolyte went on to say:

Aside: I sat reading the last couple of posts in this thread & realised that something has gone missing from why I began the thread. I'm not sure what that is, but it started, I thought, with something a little new & towards the end seemed more an academic discussion of things not very relevant. That is probably just my mood for now, & I am not in any way making comment about other posters here, just that I have a sense the thread didn't go how I imagined it might.

What exactly (or approximately) did you have in mind, Acolyte? Shall we go there... as well?

To be honest, I am not sure now. I had the feeling the original thoughts about Imagination might lead somewhere, but instead it got sidetracked into what to me seem to be mostly irrelevant discussions of Uranium & whether or not there is a hologram etc. Kind of losing the grand aim for discussing the nitpicking details & analogies that actually had nothing to do with the topic?

Of what purpose is it to discuss, for example, the beginning of the life force on this planet & how it might fission or disintegrate or whatever Uranium was meant to show - that might belong in an origins thread or perhaps one discussing the structure of being or how life enters the solid - almost anything but what was being discussed here.

Now, it seems the originating thought has gone from me, lost in the posts & all I recall is it seemed important at the time.

[Dorman1]

In your opening post, you will find within the second paragraph, that which irks me. By, "irks me", I mean it sort of irritates me. Science has such a long history of ridiculing religion and spirituality, the metaphysical. Now, they reverse theirselves by stating matter is not real, only energy is. So, we go from science stating the mechanistic (this asserts the position that every manifestation of consciousness, awareness, etc., comes to be only through the electro/chemical processes of the physical body), back to animism, vitalism, spiritualism, ORMEism, whatever.

Now they get to reverse their position as it suits them. Whenever we discuss energy/matter, or my preference, force/substance, we are speaking of Life. I probably over-state a position I hold, when I submit the illustration of two individuals discussing the interesting manner in which a disease has entered into and spread throughout the body of a dying person, while this person is present, and her relatives as well. Remember, I acknowledged that I am over-stating.

This brings to light another region of imagination, in which I see Wisdom fully manisfested in all Its glory, and over the Centuries, Millenia, the gradual distortion and degradation of it. This is where people like Francis Bacon play an important role in bringing humanity up out of the morass of degenerate religious dogma, until Great Minds once again might reveal what is a vast panarama of life within this Universe where we consider ourselves alone. For we have difficulty seeing beyond our noses.

Imagination Usually the making of mental pictures; but this is actually merely fancy; imagination is "one of the plastic powers of the higher Soul, the memory of preceding incarnations, which, however, disfigured by the lower Manas, yet rests always on a ground of truth" (TG 153). Imagination is therefore a creative power which, used in conjunction with will, calls forth not only creative forces, but likewise their productions. Thus it can be used for spiritualization and also for the materialization of images conceived in the mind; to bring about the results we desire, whether good or evil. It may become our master, chaining us to the illusions we have created; when, however, we can direct this power and resist its suggestions of fancy, it becomes a powerful instrument in shaping our lives and destiny.

[Acolyte]

So because you have a grudge against Science for not seeing the world the way you do, you take it out on me when Science follows its process & starts moving away from previously held positions? Does that not mean it is you who is stuck to past prejudice, assumptions & ideas while Science is showing to be malleable & responsive?

I'm sorry dorman, but while I have enjoyed our past chats, your recent attitude as shown in your posts, along with posts that are indecipherable to anyone without your precise background is showing a side of you that I'm fairly sure you wouldn't tolerate from others.

If all your study has led you to such a superior attitude then perhaps you need to revise your curriculum?

[Dorman1]

I exagerate often, and I also limit reaction favoring continued insights into a topic. At least... I do when I see I'm affecting a negative response in another. I simply return toward the impersonal, and maybe some weak humor, if I must add emotion. One can not be reactionary and use higher mind functions simultaneously. I get the feeling you have probably glanced quickly at my posts, due to the highly civilized manner of courtesy you possess. However, I see reaction nonetheless, it is simply expressed differently. So, I apparently controlled you, it is a natural and logical outflowing consequent therefrom.

On the assertion concerning "reactionary and higher mind functions" I suppose any intrinsic knowledge of a higher order could arise, even when under the dispensation of an emotion. I think this is intuition, but unsure.

[Acolyte]

I exagerate often, and I also limit reaction favoring continued insights into a topic. At least... I do when I see I'm affecting a negative response in another. I simply return toward the impersonal, and maybe some weak humor, if I must add emotion. One can not be reactionary and use higher mind functions simultaneously. I get the feeling you have probably glanced quickly at my posts, due to the highly civilized manner of courtesy you possess. However, I see reaction nonetheless, it is simply expressed differently. So, I apparently controlled you, it is a natural and logical outflowing consequent therefrom.

On the assertion concerning "reactionary and higher mind functions" I suppose any intrinsic knowledge of a higher order could arise, even when under the dispensation of an emotion. I think this is intuition, but unsure.

Surely you must find such (mis)behaviour severely limits your interactions with others? Most people will not react favourably to such apparent disdain & often react badly to such implied smug superiority.

So be it. I shall continue my explorations & posts without reliance on a source which has proved impenetrable & antagonistic to the idea of shared communication. You may comment if you wish but unless it is in clear English & without the jargon, I will simply go my way.

You may wish to see this as 'control' but that simply shows the depth of misunderstanding. Knowledge that cannot be communicated is not knowledge. I've had some exposure to those studying theosophy & so far the score is 4 to 0 in favour of those who have self-removed from meaningful dialogue with the rest of the Beings living lives around them.

Au revoir, dorman.

[Dorman1]

I've met four Australians and had talks with them at length, and I find that I really cannot judge all Australians. Just put me in with the few Theosophists you have communicated with rather than judging all of them. They do have tissues down there in Australia I hope. Perhaps they have the pretty colored ones of a roseate hue.

[Acolyte]

I've met four Australians and had talks with them at length, and I find that I really cannot judge all Australians. Just put me in with the few Theosophists you have communicated with rather than judging all of them. They do have tissues down there in Australia I hope. Perhaps they have the pretty colored ones of a roseate hue.

This is what is called a straw man. I haven't said I am judging anyone but your post attempts to paint things as if I am somehow using your theosophy studies to categorise you & so make it appear I am judging a group. Very not true. I having been talking very specifically about you & your posts. Attempting to make out that I am doing something else is simply a way of avoiding the subject.

And, like quite a few of your posts recently, rather passive-aggressive, while we're on the subject. Are you having a hard time in life recently? - it has been some time since your posts didn't contain some kind of snide dig at several of the other posters here. The post I quoted back on 1st Nov is an example & you got another poster here rather upset by you comments about them rather than their posts. You seem to enjoy taking shots at people & then claiming humour or some self-deprecating put down as a reason - but you then continue the behaviour, making your reasons trite & difficult to believe. Instead it appears you're just being nasty & trying to cover it up later with BS reasons.

So be it.

[Dorman1]

I've met four Australians and had talks with them at length, and I find that I really cannot judge all Australians. Just put me in with the few Theosophists you have communicated with rather than judging all of them. They do have tissues down there in Australia I hope. Perhaps they have the pretty colored ones of a roseate hue.

This is what is called a straw man. I haven't said I am judging anyone but your post attempts to paint things as if I am somehow using your theosophy studies to categorise you & so make it appear I am judging a group. Very not true. I having been talking very specifically about you & your posts. Attempting to make out that I am doing something else is simply a way of avoiding the subject.

Whatever. I don't know what a strawman is except for what farmers use to scare crows away from their crops. It felt to me you made slurs, and I really don't harbor anything in response.

And, like quite a few of your posts recently, rather passive-aggressive, while we're on the subject. Are you having a hard time in life recently? - it has been some time since your posts didn't contain some kind of snide dig at several of the other posters here. The post I quoted back on 1st Nov is an example & you got another poster here rather upset by you comments about them rather than their posts. You seem to enjoy taking shots at people & then claiming humour or some self-deprecating put down as a reason - but you then continue the behaviour, making your reasons trite & difficult to believe. Instead it appears you're just being nasty & trying to cover it up later with BS reasons.

Here you are judging me, and as I don't feel you are better than me, I say judge away woopty doo.
So be it.

So be it.

[Dorman1]

While making all my numerous visits to this site, i think somewhere along the path I've left my humility behind. With that being stated, I will simply leave you all alone and stop being a bother.

[Acolyte]

Reality isn't what people like to deal with - it is something most of the world is trying to escape. Even with the constant programming about how wonderful life is if you can buy 'the latest...' or look like the 'most beautiful,' own the biggest, be the richest, people are finding more ways to escape reality than ever. The frantic urge to escape from reality fuelled a tourism boom, has created markets never before seen & caused entire generations to be the most mobile ever seen.

There is something lacking in our reality - we are educated to be compliant yet the level of anger & frustration in society grows exponentially - women now indulge in road rage as much as men, yet they don't have the testosterone excuse. Ask your fellow workers what pisses them off, then when they pause for breath, ask them what they think they can do about it. the first question will bring answers I can't possibly guess; the second will bring 'nothing.'

In spite of all of that, look in the right places & you see the depth of humanity, the vast range of responses to times of stress, to others' pain or loss and the amazing resilience of those who lose all they had. Ask people about their dreams & you begin to see them come to life; ask them about their reality & watch the mood crash.

We grow up full of imagination & dreams, seeing the world as a marvellous place, full of possibilities & marvels. Then as we go to school & see our parents living in their world, most find their views of the world circumscribed & limited. Most people have to give up their dreams & push their imagination into the depths to be able to fit themselves inside the tiny boundaries they are 'allowed' by the society around them.

Many fail to break the conditioning imposed & in a fairly normal psychological reaction to helplessness, come to make a virtue of their limitations & of their pain. They find ways to justify the blinders they've been forced into wearing & to convince others that their way is right while others who still hold onto dreams, who still imagine their is a better way to live, are naive & silly to think so.

But through our history, it isn't the limited ones who make the changes, it's those who push the boundaries & find new ways to view the world, new paradigms to change how things might be. It is those who see beyond the prison bars that attempt to lock them in & find ways to remove them that bring Light into the world, who change the level of knowledge & who bring, even for a short time, the wonder of a bigger universe than that allowed by orthodox authority.

Imagination is arguably a very high level of Awareness; all actions, all inventions, all relationships begin with imagination. By it's very operation we can define ourselves as human - animals operate in a much more limited, two-valued universe where things are good or bad, survival or death. But we can imagine & so we can find alternatives to the basic lizard-brain responses mandated by raw emotion.

The growth of humanity has come from imagination, from the ability to look around & see how things might be, not just how they are. Unfortunately there are many in our world who fail to rise to that level, for whom the animal world of two extremes is the only view they can have of life.

General Semantics is a field that attempts to bring the power of a human mind back to the fore, to use rational thought along with imagination, to interpret input from both the outside world & from the emotions that colour the input as it streams into our sensorium. Count Alfred Korzybski applied rational mind to the problem orf irrational humanity back in the 30's; the very first thing he threw out was the two valued universe of Aristotle; thus his findings are known as Non-Aristotelian.

In General Semantics, the world is seen as it really is, & awareness of the myriad views & possibilities of the real world are fodder for the faculties of human & mind to find a rational response to any situation. The two-valued view of the world allows no such rationality & instead fosters unsanity because of false-to-facts decisions and judgements made by those with minds crippled by the mis-education we have been receiving from both Church & Governments.

Imagination allows us to see a better way to live, to find wonder in the world & to place ourselves in another person's shoes so we can feel empathy & offer to help them in their time of trouble. People grow out of themselves in emergencies in spite of what the media would have us believe - that isn't the animals response of good or bad, it is the human response of values & imagination of consequence for those less fortunate.

[DocPtah]

Acolyte's post of 11-28-09 was great! It did, however, raise a question.

If we assume that humanity is composed of a spectrum of tendencies toward imagination, possibly a scale from 1 to 9, in which 1 is for those who do not utilize imagination and in fact tend to do everything possible to prevent more imaginative people from exercising their talents, while 9 is for the extremely imaginative person who is not bound by social mores, group-think, or all those 1's running about...

Then... can you imagine something that would greatly reduce the ability of the 1's, 2's, and maybe even the 3's or 4's from constantly raining on the parade of the 7's, 8's, and 9's... and perhaps make things even better for the 5's and 6's? Keep in mind that religion and dogma tend to produce and strength the 1's and 2's... who invariably FEAR the 8's and 9's as dire threats. What can be done to reduce the hold of religion... and for that matter, the hold of science on steadfastly holding onto worthless, outdated ideas... and literally attempt to prevent at all costs the insertion of truly creative thinking into the mainstream?

How about imagining how the Georgia Guidestones could play a major role?