Why Truth is important for us to know.

[Dorman1]

I will write with some gravity or seriousness in respect for Angel. I have not given an appropriate amount of effort and due regard to the topic she initiated.

I sense the correctness in the description given of an unborn and eternal spiritual consciousness within THAT which I will not allude to with any name other than the word in capital letters. A spiritual consciousness within IT, I will call FIRST LOGOS. I'm uncertain as to why I only want to use THAT to indicate the first mentioned. The First Logos starts as a centre of conscious energy at the time of cosmic activity. It is the first ego and every other ego or manifestation is only a reflection of It. I think even this FIRST LOGOS can only see THAT with a veil thrown over it, a veil of cosmic matter. We are many levels removed from first logos and I don't think the latter is limited to male or female. In otherwords, I think logos can refer to either or both genders. I don't think there are gaps between all these layers, and so it might be said a person can go beyond their perspective, and this is where severity balances mercy.

We can touch upon whatever our imaginings can arrive upon, but we should use what we can teleologically. Deontological discussion arrives upon traversing the right path, but how do I enforce my idea's/ideals onto others who have chosen the path they are upon? I allow others to judge me knowing they are judging theirselves, for I can choose to hold this judgement, but really, I don't think I would choose this karmic weight. If there is something to change in regard to my thoughts, and actions, then I will choose to ponder how I might go about bringing upon me a change toward improvement in possessing the trust that Nature might bestow upon me. Another human? they are simply another bump upon a dark globe under the foal of an ass, and an ASS (an angel and a Throne). An ass used to be a very highly regarded animal, a part of the family as a pet, but also a very useful part of society as a bearer of burdens. So in some circles it represented a very high Regent closely associated with Earth's beginning and its evolution. I give due regard, kinda, to Caeser and his goons with guns, but those who I sense a particular essence behind the form, receive my highest regard. Who am I fooling? I'm always irreverent. What they say about my company, is what they say about society. This too will pass, I see little worth emulating here.

Upon this forum, I see DocPtah as a worthy, Acolyte, Wiz_Oz, and Angel. The latter possesses laser quality cohesion in her emotion.

[Angel]

Dorman .. are you calling me an ass? lol

The last line was very much clear and I am humbled by your statement and smiling from ear to ear.

Thank you.

[Acolyte]

1. From where or whence came the Universe?

I would first want to say that our galaxy is considered by some to be a universe, in that It is Itself, immense and more unknown than known to us. I recently saw a Hubble orbital telescope view of countless galaxies. The Universe comes from nuclear strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces which emanate the hydrogen atom, the basis of all known matter. Gravity and all the unknown's associated to the physical and energic we will call noumenal and put on a shelf.

Ah but you see, here you cannot get away with that. A Universe is not a galaxy & those who think it is need to buy a telescope. It may not be what the astronomers limit it to, but a galaxy is one small part of a Universe.

Amd I am sorry, but the rest of this answer in no way addresses where our Universe comes from - those forces are part of the Universe - are you saying the Universe comes from within itself? Perhaps you could tell me from whence come the forces you say are origin for the Universe?

2. Are there alien life forms who could be considered intelligent in the generally accepted way we have here on Earth?

I suspect the general consensus is still along the line of intelligence being the result of electro/chemical interactions within the brain. We have only witnessed our own humanity being possessed of intelligence.

Yes I know that, but can you address the question? Attempting to answer it by providing a general statement of what we see isn't an answer, it's a diversion.

3. Are they Fallen? Or did they pass the test Jehovah apparently put us through?

I think only the humanity on this Globe D must face the Accuser at the Scene of Judgement, where Horus and Anubis stand by the scales, to inspect the weight which determines whether the heart of the deceased balances the symbol of truth, or the latter preponderates. At this scene, I don't believe the name, Jehova is used.

This is non sequitur - Accuser? Horus & Anubis? What has this got to do with, if there are aliens, did they fail the Test supposedly posed by God to Adam & Eve?

4. If they are, did they get their Commandments, their Jesus & God's Grace? If they got a Jesus, is it the same Son of God we got?

this is where I meet with some confusion, possibly due to being an eclectic sort. Jesus or Christos is represented by our Sun , and is represented as Spirit, is considered by Dionysos the Aereopagite as a Power. Our Sun, along with all Stars, are considered by some as sub-Logoi, with the Black Hole Sun at the center of galaxies as Logoi. Yet Saturn is considered a Throne and I get the inference of the Throne holding more authority. To come back to your question more closely, I'd say a uniting principle does exist, even if one were to suggest we all came from the same Father and simply have different Mother's.

That's nice. But if there are aliens, & if they Fell, did they get their Jesus as well to give them a chance? I know you think life is planets & Suns, but we are talking here of the Redemption path, the way back from the Fall.

5. Does the Universe actually exist or is it a thought in the Mind of The ALL? If we are mere phantasms of The ALL, do we have free will?

You have implied more than once a suggestion that creation occurred only one time by the ALL, and thus I infer the idea that you do not believe we are creators, and that creation is not an ongoing process. We have will which is often problematic and other times inspired.

Your answer in no way addresses the questions here. What I believe isn't anything to do with what I asked.

Now these are probably also a little facetious as they are questions nobody I've heard of has answered, so I have a couple of supplementary ones for you to try instead...

A. What is electricity? By this I don't mean describe it, I mean what is it specifically that gives an electron its charge or makes the charge opposite to that held by a proton?

A proton is a trinity of quarks maintaining a circular spin/rotation/motion within a dielectric we do not see with our senses and electrons are a result of this motion of spin within contact with the dielectric. The proton has a spin opposite the direction of spin electrons interacting with it are maintaining. The proton rotates in one direction while the electron being in contact (for want of a better word) rotates the opposite direction. Ambiguity results from the opposite rotations manifesting a love/hate relationship. After all, there is a fine line between love and hate.

The questions was to specifically tell me what electricity is - does any of what you say here tell me that? Why would spinning the other way cause an electron to carry a charge? What is a charge? You may as well have pointed at a generator & said, 'that's what electricity is.' I am asking specifically

B. What is magnetism? Similar to the above, what causes the north & south poles of a magnet?

This is a larger scale of the above where the negative entities enter the south and exit the north a better being. Ennobled. They don't walk upside-down anymore.

Sorry, but a larger scale of a description of an hypothesis is not an explanation of anything. If you'd defined what electricity actually is, this answer might make sense. What is a larger scale of 3 quarks? Or of opposite spins? What does your upside down entities mean?

C. How does a magnet reach out & move metal or another magnet & why is it it doesn't seem to wear out when it does it?

A typical medium for the field is naturally attractive and contributive to the field.

Um... that is rank gibberish dorma. Without some kind of explanation for what it means you may as well have typed The Ancient Mariner for an answer. At least it would be a good read.

D. Where do we get our thoughts? Do they originate in our brains? Our Minds? Elsewhere?

They come from a tiny reflection which is actually more than a reflection as it is representative to a laya center or opening to another realm.

While this is the closest approach to an answer, it is still not meaningful. A reflection of what? What is a laya centre? What other realms? If our thought originate in other realms, where do THEIR thoughts come from?

E. What are the PSI or ESP effects we all experience & which some seem to have in stronger doses than others? Do they indicate something other than this Universe or are they effects internal to the cosmos we inhabit?

It is the commonality of venue we all possess but only when we are clean in more ways than the normal definition denotes, and possess the quiet of a mind at peace with Nature, and finally, attained some level of a more or less degree of appropriateness to an awareness of a large field of experience.

So in other words, you don't know either?

Overall, were I the teacher & you the student, this would not be a passing grade, dorman. First rule of exams is ALWAYS answer the questions. These read more like evasions or attempts to derail a conversation than an honest attempt to engage in conversation or to answer the questions themselves.

Care to try again?

(you didn't really think I would let you get away with that, did you?

[Dorman1]

OK, you parsed an obviously silly and spontaneously given thought-lacking gibberish. Now, you get the Truth. When I am more comfortable concerning my confidence in your "being able to handle the truth" you will see it written for you from me. Until then enjoy a peanut-butter and jelly sandwich with a glass of milk.

[Acolyte]

OK, you parsed an obviously silly and spontaneously given thought-lacking gibberish. Now, you get the Truth. When I am more comfortable concerning my confidence in your "being able to handle the truth" you will see it written for you from me. Until then enjoy a peanut-butter and jelly sandwich with a glass of milk.

Not much on the peanut butter & in Oz we call Jelly... Jam. We don't normally mix the two. However I'm not against some raw salmon with avocado dip & salad along with a nice cold beer...

So you just take your time, young fella, get your thoughts in line & ducks in a row then come talk to the old bloke when you're ready...

[Dorman1]

I am Fifty years old! I'm not a young fella, it is simply that I am still viable in speed, strength, and motion of the ocean.

You have this truth. Mission objective we have now: to be free from thought, feeling, and form. Avoid these three last terms, link consciousness to its purely spiritual state. The devic entities only see our thoughts as forms, they can't think, or contemplate Ideation. We can. I don't know how this is done. Form an etheric mental body and wind on through the devic forms known as our thoughts, and connect to the higher mind, and this will give the new consciousness we are to be delivering. Remember when I use; don't, not, no, that they have opposites.

Some elfin looking little green glowing smarty pants is responsible for the above. Only a better job of it was done by the smarty pants.

[Acolyte]

Ah, but I am older than you so I get to call you young fella...

[Acolyte]

I am Fifty years old! I'm not a young fella, it is simply that I am still viable in speed, strength, and motion of the ocean.

You have this truth. Mission objective we have now: to be free from thought, feeling, and form. Avoid these three last terms, link consciousness to its purely spiritual state. The devic entities only see our thoughts as forms, they can't think, or contemplate Ideation. We can. I don't know how this is done. Form an etheric mental body and wind on through the devic forms known as our thoughts, and connect to the higher mind, and this will give the new consciousness we are to be delivering. Remember when I use; don't, not, no, that they have opposites.

Some elfin looking little green glowing smarty pants is responsible for the above. Only a better job of it was done by the smarty pants.

I am not much into the superstitions of 'devic entities' & the like. I prefer to base my thoughts & perceptions in less imaginary realms. For me there is more than enough magic in reality & the possibilities inherent in a Universe that may not be there - the religious speculations involving convoluted imaginary structures & hierarchical levels of hypothetical powers, devils & gods, all tied up in special definitions that supposedly require years of dedicated study to even begin to grasp appear to be not only irrelevant but to actively suborn the intellectual integrity of those involved.

Strangely the delving into such purportedly 'spiritual' pursuits seems to regularly bring about swelling otf the ego to support the feelings of superiority at having learned the minutiae of a fiction that cannot be shown, cannot be proved, & is impossibly too complicated to put into plain language.

Somehow the actual guiders of Human spirituality 9no, not the organised churches) seem to have been able to bypass such superstitious ranting & have been able to provide (thankfully) a far less confusing path towards spiritual growth.

Truth that can't be explained or is encased in ritual & jargon is not truth, it is manipulation & ego stroking. Hardly the path to Wisdom.

[Dorman1]

I think very many people see the Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Egyptian metaphysical thought as superstition. However, I have read Tesla came upon the knowledge which has made his name continue long after his death, through the study of the Sanskrit. Newton also arrived at scientific heights from his metaphysical thoughts.

I've simply come to understand Life is force/substance, with Consciousness behind it. When scientifically focused upon the energies and matters, or forces and substances, it is Life which one is focussed upon.

I've often seen the complaint concerning our language being very inadequate compared against the Sanskrit. In many cases, English words have very many meanings rather than only one. I have a strong suspicion this state in which a word might direct one to a host of various definitions is problematic.

The human mind processes thoughts and images, and the mind has a broad expanse where these thoughts and images are logged as forms. I imagine one end of this spectrum consists of form/substance contrasting the other end through comparison according to density versus tenuity. Either end of this spectrum consist of doers, while the middle might be described as being neutral. Perhaps I'm being kind in characterising it as neutral. Angel has the same ability or superior ability of making a decision and acting upon it. While another will be attempting to go beyond or above the forms possessed within. Then there are those upon this Globe who use inductive/deductive, analogy, and other forms of logic to arrive at an understanding of processes, properties of Life. Yet, often I suspect the nadir is raised, while simultaneously lowering the acme. I attempt often, to comprehend physics, yet, when I attempt to utilize my "jargon", no one even attempts to investigate any of what I say. So, I'm attempting to meet them along the path. I'm doing my part. I don't receive this same effort from others. I only get accused of possessing some secret knowledge that I will not share. No wonder people reach a certain level, and then depart from humans. I know about and comprehend Gaia which has been mentioned more than once. No-one wants to understand Theosophy, which is really about being eclectic. I understand Doc's Anunnaki as well.

For my part, I'm endeavoring to understand all that is mentioned here. While other's wimper about my using jargon they could easily understand with even the merest effort.

[Acolyte]

There you go, I knew you could do it.

I've simply come to understand Life is force/substance, with Consciousness behind it. When scientifically focused upon the energies and matters, or forces and substances, it is Life which one is focussed upon.

I've come to the same understanding, but not from reading up on ancient texts - one problem of so doing is to work out what the true reading is. Translation is a dicey art - just look at the battles about Sitchin's work on Sumer.

Don't be so sure people don't try to understand what you say - it's just that you chose to do years of study into arcana as your path - requiring others to emulate you simply to hold a conversation, meaningful or otherwise, is not going to bring a lot of success for you. It also makes it hard for you to hear any other PoV because nobody can express one about your ideas if they can't understand them.

For my part, I'm endeavoring to understand all that is mentioned here. While other's wimper about my using jargon they could easily understand with even the merest effort.

I don't whimper; I have merely asked, on multiple occasions, for you to use plain English & not try to force me to study Theosophy just to speak with you. It is NOT 'merest effort' to try to penetrate your esoterica & you know it. To pretend otherwise is yet more of the posturing that has led to this place between us.

I don't mind people knowing shit I don't know; I object when they try to conceal it or to present it so as to boost their self-gratification at my expense. I go to lengths to ensure my readability so I can have rational discussions with open minds - playing ego games with the language betrays a mind not interested in rational discussion but more in point scoring.

[Dorman1]

I was on here this morning when I suddenly realized the store was supposed to be open. I didn't log off or shut down my computer. Must've been very tired.

It is a minor effort to grasp the basics of Theosophy, especially for you. I don't insist or even have a desire to make you do anything. If you feel a negatively charged space is between us, simply dismiss it. I often use stage performance to prod or evoke. I have no problem with you at all. I don't play victim or aggressor in life. Unless the proper verisimilitude calls for it.

[ozziegem]

Don't be so sure people don't try to understand what you say - it's just that you chose to do years of study into arcana as your path - requiring others to emulate you simply to hold a conversation, meaningful or otherwise, is not going to bring a lot of success for you. It also makes it hard for you to hear any other PoV because nobody can express one about your ideas if they can't understand them.

Upon reflection I tend to agree with this statement ....and this One ....

I've come to the same understanding, but not from reading up on ancient texts - one problem of so doing is to work out what the true reading is. Translation is a dicey art - just look at the battles about Sitchin's work on Sumer.

I will also endeaver to add that at times Dorman you try to invoke people and i have noticed a sense of favouritism ..and exclusion ...by actually only addressing certain posters and little tidbits with piercing little arrows at others ,at times and an inuendo of being slighted in some way, that the poster has not had any such intention,
and a sense a dual personality coming through ..I do understand the eclectic ...So am I ....the key may be in a little more intergration of all areas of research into a more comprehensible Whole as I actually loose most of what you are trying to convey in the jargon ..It reminds me of a study course "the course of Miracles" and I have not seen it working for the individuals concerned ,,,if anything it has tended to err on a state of utter confusion and complication .which also reminds of a post of' acolytes 'just put to creative physics ..I think along the lines of group mentality on the control it can evoke in the individuals within that group .

One truth I have found is ,that the folk that think the best of One will more that likely get the Best of One as well.

A true friend is someone who will think the best of you and Not Try to GET the better of you.

[Dorman1]

ozzie, I simply do not have the energy to address many people. I can't put forth a false interest. Acolyte is interesting almost everytime he posts something. I will listen to yours, and Acolytes information concerning a more understandable posting whenever I post. This has weight to it. As for my little personality or dual personality quirks, or the fiery darts of satan, other posters have received from me, I hope they are alright and well.

Airey and Earthy, do well and live long and prosper. I'm not the eye in the sky or the fleet of foot runner. I choose and I judge myself. As what I read from others concerning my appraisal, I will accept it as guidance, and it goes no further into any quantity and quality of meaning. Only guidance I may choose to heed or not. So on and so forth, etcetera, etcetera, blah blah blah.

[Heyokah]

I hope this isn't much of a divergence...I like to watch Chris Angels show Mind Freak when I get the oppertunity to do so. He's just a tad (clearly and understatment) on the extravagent side with his "bling" and such, but a good entertainer non-the-less. I've always wondered how he's been able to accomplish some 'seemingly' metaphysical feats (with a healthy dose of physical as well). However, I find it more valuable that I cherish the fact that I don't know...and therfore as far as I know it could be real...and that sense of wonderment is more important to me than actually knowing the truth of how he accomplishs his impossible feats. Actually knowing would be a 'let down' if you will.

However, when it comes to things of the esoteric, physics, political, etc...I want to know the truth, but I still continue to have the same sense of wonderment I experience when watching Chris Angels' show. Maybe not about politics other than being in wonderment at how vile some humans can really be.

I've been paying attention to the last few posts on this subject as well...Dorman, something that I've always wondered (which may devolve into something quite rediculous here in a minute after listening to the things floating around in my head at the moment but..), sometimes I meet extreamly happy people. So cheerful it seems almost overkill to me. I wonder to myself "are these peoples' personality really like this or is it just an act?" And to take this concept just a tad further, does it really matter if it is or not? I mean, these people, so cheerful and seemingly excited to be alive....is it really such a bad thing that they are trying to be like this even if its not who they really are? This can really devolve into a circular arguement with me because I'd always prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, but I always tend to wonder.

[Dorman1]

... I've always wondered how he's been able to accomplish some 'seemingly' metaphysical feats (with a healthy dose of physical as well). However, I find it more valuable that I cherish the fact that I don't know...and therfore as far as I know it could be real...and that sense of wonderment is more important to me than actually knowing the truth of how he accomplishs his impossible feats. Actually knowing would be a 'let down' if you will.

Chris Angel practiced both the Martial Arts and Mystical Insights. I was interested until he performed a seance.

However, when it comes to things of the esoteric, physics, political, etc...I want to know the truth, but I still continue to have the same sense of wonderment I experience when watching Chris Angels' show. Maybe not about politics other than being in wonderment at how vile some humans can really be.

I like the order of importance (if that was your intention) you placed the three terms. I try to recapture wonder sometimes.

I've been paying attention to the last few posts on this subject as well...Dorman, something that I've always wondered (which may devolve into something quite rediculous here in a minute after listening to the things floating around in my head at the moment but..), sometimes I meet extreamly happy people. So cheerful it seems almost overkill to me. I wonder to myself "are these peoples' personality really like this or is it just an act?" And to take this concept just a tad further, does it really matter if it is or not? I mean, these people, so cheerful and seemingly excited to be alive....is it really such a bad thing that they are trying to be like this even if its not who they really are? This can really devolve into a circular arguement with me because I'd always prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, but I always tend to wonder.

Chokmah (Jupiter) is said to supply force to Binah (Saturn), even if speaking upon the physical science. It is scientifically explained through observations, that Jupiters EM field actually reaches Saturn, in billions of amps, when their orbits around the Sun bring them close together, relatively speaking. Within the human body complex, it is probably more reasonable to find an appropriate place inbetween polarities. If this happiness you observe is possessed of true joy and respect toward the lives of others around them, I would want to freely receive it, but going further, I would not receive without giving. I'm curious as to why this question arose, was there a particular reason?