The rhyme

[RVB]

This is something I wrote when I was thinking of something Bernard Werber calls the "Ideosphere". He thinks that ideas are living things, which always keep circulating the earth in search of a host in order to express themselves.

The Rhyme

Once up a time
there was a small rhyme.
It knew it had elegance, class and style
because the author had gone the extra mile
of making it beautiful, crystalline and pure
so that every critic it could endure.


But alas, the author died beforehand,
and the rhyme almost disappeared, like water in sand.
However the rhyme did not want to be forgotten and die
so the rhyme became a thought once again and started to fly,
fly far away from it's paper prison, up high into the sky.


The reborn thought saw stars, planets and even the sun,
and learned that only black holes it should shun.
And so it went on its way to find a mind
to fulfil its destiny and once again be rhymed.


He flew through the air, brave and swift
in search of a mind it could uplift.
It was a hard journey; it didn't know
that most minds don't let good thoughts grow!


So it searched harder, high and low,
flew through cultures and societies foreign and alike
rejected by many heads before starting to feel sorrow.
It felt unwanted, despised and hated like a rabid tyke.


It withdrew far into the mountains, into a small valley.
In that valley of green pastures was a small child,
playing in the grass with animals, so joyfully
t'was an unusual picture, here, out in the wild.


As the thought approached, the child turned it's head in the thought's direction,
sensing that there was a task which ended in destiny's satisfaction.
"Come to me, curious little thing, tell me, why are you so sad?"
"Because I am destined to be a rhyme, but everyone I touch, will whine,
will shout and eject me out of their heads, thrashing about as if in their deathbeds."
"Oh you poor soul, come to me, fill me with your wisdom and teach me what you are,
I will help you become a rhyme once again, and turn you into a real star."

The thought finally had a sound mind to settle in,
and became the most beautiful rhyme that has ever been,
and once it was known across and afar, it became the most beautiful star
ever seen.

[Sol]

Hi RVB and welcome,

I notice you say on another posting that you speak six languages - great suff, always nice to meet another polyglot. Do you know any non-European ones? By all means, give us the full list. We have several speakers of a few different languages here, and our linguistic discussion will hopefully be soon reaching new highs. (I'll jump in as soon as I finish the fifty other immediate things I have to do first, hehe.)

Very nice poem! And a great way to tie it into an entirely fascinating topic. I actualy hadn't heard of Werber, though I seem to recall reading about something like the Ideosphere from RA Wilson. I'm gonna have to read up more on this Werber fella, sounds like a fun guy, we should get him to join us here and tell it from the horse's mouth.

But would you believe, in fact this fits directly into my little "DoK theory" ("Dissemination of Knowledge"), that I've been trying to formulate with Daniel for the past couple of months!

This is exactly what I believe too, that Ideas are like live things, "ghosts" if you like, which once formed exist forever, to continue influence whoever they come in contact with, anywhere, any time. It's basically the same as the Collective Subconscious, the Akashic Records, or what have you, just maybe a sharpening of some of the aspects.

I have a long message about my DoK all planned out here, and will post it soon, so we can continue this fascinating topic there (or meanwhile here if you like.) Check it out - it relates to something Daniel posted yesterday pertaining to that strange Russian novel we have a whole forum about. Don't worry, you don't have to know the book to see what he's saying.

One of the chief notions from that book is that "manuscripts don't burn" - a statement which each author should surely hold dear to his heart, hehe. It implies that once something is written it becomes There Forever, no matter how much you try to destroy it. This is an excellent illustration of the Ideosphere theory. It's basically what has kept Knowledge alive through the many millennia of different repressive regimes, and reassures us that our ideas indeed DO NOT die, even when we ourselves do.

Best regards,
Sol

[SirNDPT]

Two thoughts come to mind...

First, memes...

Second, something that I have beem toying with for a long time: If I hold a thought or idea in my own mind, then it is "happening" in the collective subconscious of the whole of humanity because I am part of that subconciousness...

SirNDPT

[DocPtah]

Great poem, RVB! Wunderbar!

As Sol mentions, this really does fit it well with the topic of "Manuscripts don't burn." Ideas, no matter how small (albeit elegant and with style) or large on the level of literally hundreds of interrelated ideas in a book, do seemingly have a means of existing without the vehicle of a mind. Of course, you say it much more elegantly with your poem, but the idea that ideas once formulated continue to persist, always searching for the means to be expressed, does have a lot of meat on which to ponder.

However... this would also imply, would it not(?), that a really nasty negative idea would also have something of a life of its own as well. One might even think of such ideas as ghosts or apparitions. Are ghosts in fact nothing more than the idea of an individual who has departed, one whose collection of interrelated ideas that comprised that person, which continues to persist?

I like the idea that all of my writing... well, maybe most of it... continues to persist, despite any lack of widespread publication. But I also have to recognize the other side of the coin as well.

I agree with Sol, that this sounds a bit like DoK Theory (from the thread on "Manuscripts don't burn"). The more relevant questions is whether or not the idea can persist if it has never been expressed. And thus the next question -- that propounded by SirNPDT -- of whether something in an individual's subconscious can exist in the collective subconscious.

Fascinating questions.

[Sol]

the next question -- of whether something in an individual's subconscious can exist in the collective subconscious.

Right! As related to your Corollary, that one has to actually spell the idea out somehow, if only to just one other person, before it becomes "fully viable" on its own. This is definitely to be explored further, and soon.

In fact WHEW! There's been enough fascinating issues raised here to keep scholars occupied for generations, and we may need to build a whole separate extension where they can repose and ruminate on just this issue.

For instance, that whole point about negative ideas becoming "bad ghosts" - man, that simply has to be looked into. This is certainly what many of your various Holistic Naturopaths say today as well, based on old precepts of Chinese Medicine. You basically hear this from every corner of the New Age nowadays, that "your negative thoughts create bad manifestations in your life." But what does this *really* mean, how far does it go, and what does it do?

So, without further diddley-do I'll go do what I must do, which is start a *very serious* DoK thread over on the Communications and Media forums, to kick those off at the same time. We'll get to the bottom of this thing over there in no time. No fooling around. Be there. Aloha.

Sol

[RVB]

Hello everyone, and thank you for the welcome.

Seems like I struck something here, even unaware. I wasn't aware of the DoK theory, but it sounds fascinating. I'm gonna be honest though, I'm only 25 years old, and have only truly begun living a few years ago (doing things before every geeky teenager does: reading up on how to chase down women, watching star wars and playing video games) so I'm not even going to pretend to understand what DoK is, before Sol's started the topic and I have had the chance to read up on it.

As far as languages go, I speak German, French, English, Spanish, Vietnamese and Filipino. The level of each language directly depends on the use of it, so right now, my filipino sucks, and my vietnamese needs more than a tourist visit to vietnam to refresh itself. Heh.

Bad ideas do live, just as well as good ideas do The only problem is that mankind hasn't been taught to think. Over the past 2000 years or so, people have been told what to think, and it still continues today. It's not a big surprise when you think a little about why God is called a shepherd. Most people are as stupid as sheep. It's as simple as that. Anf it the theory about the Annunaki is correct, we weren't even created to think. But that's off topic.

The topic of ideas being living beings is also tied to creating reality. If ideas are living beings, and influence us by feeding on our imagination (be they positive or negative) they also directly shape the future. Hence mind control gains an all new importance, right?

I've done some experiments in my own life recently: creating my own reality. In order to create my own reality, I didn't only have to believe in the things which were going to happen to me, but also know them, and acknowledge them as fact. To acknowledge it as reality. This sort of gives a quiet strength which is stronger than faith and conviction. It was for me anyway. It helped me get a new job which suited every single aspect of my needs (money's good, job interesting and challenging without being too stressfull, must have flexible working hours, no work on weekends and colleagues who weren't fakes etc...), I even tried creating a space for a certain type of people in my life (ok, I admit, I was going for the gorgeous down to earth brunette with an awesome body, education and intelligence, openness towards the finer points of life) and it worked. Fault in my thinking: I was so focused on creating this woman in my life, that I forgot to take into account the guts I didn't have to ask her on a date

(hhmmmm... I notice I've been rambling..)

This topic encompasses more than just the bard's corner... I look forward to the DoK topic Sol!

[DocPtah]

The concept that ideas can become living things... or at least persist with or without a mind in which to reside... is fascinating one. But the concept does not necessarily describe the full ramifications that are possible.

What, for example, happens over time? Does an idea's "health" or "potency" vary in accordance with how many or how few minds it manages to occupy over the course of time? If an idea lies dormant -- i.e., not connecting with any mind -- does it slowly (or rapidly) fade away? Are ideas like parasites which need a host, but which can hang in there for long periods of time between hosts?

On the flip side, do ideas increase in strength and potency when they are held by more than one person? Can in fact ideas take on a whole new intensity of existence if held by large numbers of peoples over long periods of time?

One fascinating example revolves around an experiment in the early 1970s when eight people in the Toronto Society for Psychical Research in Canada in which a totally fictitious character named Philip was conjured up out of the imagination. Philip was given a basic life story by one member, and then all manner of additional "memories" were invented. All members then memorized Philip's wholly fictitious bio. Then they began to try and conjure up Philip's fake spirit. Eventually, through a series of raps on a table, Philip showed up for an extended conversation, and effectively became another member of the group. "In sum, the experimenters had succeeded beyond all expectations, although none understood how or why. They had clearly understood and had proved that there was no 'spirit' behind the communications and that the messages had come from the group unconscious."

If eight people can conjure up a Philip, then imagine what millions upon millions of people over thousands of years could do with "someone" called the Devil! More importantly, does the idea reach a point where it no longer needs the human mind vehicle for continuing existence? Why not?

Added to all of this is the observation of look what a "rhyme" can generate in terms of capturing a schema or two within several human minds!!!!

[Sol]

Gentlebeings,

I'm happy to inform that I somehow managed to make that first lame posting about the DoK Theory over on the Comm forums.

So I urge all the intersted to collate your fascinating responses from here, and REPOST them again over on the DoK thread. That would be a better place to consolidate them all, as there's a likelihood that more people would look at the intriguing title.

By all means join us there, and let's solve this thing once and for all, hehe.

RVB - I appreciate the confidence. You are a highly enlightened young man to be able to understand all of that already, and your modesty about your perceived limitations is highly becoming. (but I hope that doesn't sound like I'm grading you or something. ) Your youth is of course in fact also your great advantage, because after we're gone it'll be you who'll have to keep the campfires lit. So make sure to learn well, hehe. Great to hear you've got yourself a nice job in the meantime, and by all means continue trying to create that brunette reality, because it sure worked for me, oh boy did it ever.

See ya'll there,
Sol